I ran across some talk recently over on HERO's Gaming Blog* about wych weapons. The advice was that the shardnet is actually the best option for wyches. Generally speaking, neither gauntlets nor razorflails add as much as another vanilla wych, but they cost the same, so having another body is better whenever you can take it. Also, the shardnet, while not nearly as killy as either other option, will reduce the number of incoming attacks significantly more than anything else.
Basically, unless the gauntlets or razorflails allow you to wipe out an opponent immediately, the shardnet will reduce the number of attacks you take back, therefore increasing the number of attacks you get to make next turn, therefore making them more killy in the long run since saving even a single wych model will give you more damage output than having gauntlets or a flail.
As can be seen from the math I posted in my initial bit about wych weapons, I found that in most of the cases that I tested against, the razorflails actually did produce more wounds than another vanilla wych model would. Against GEqs, they did not, nor if I had rr to wound on the combat drugs. In most other scenarios though, a wych with razorflail killed more things than two plain wyches. (and actually, they'll do better than I originally figured, I did all that math at S3 rather than SX, which I think I've heard wyches are poisoned in CC)
Initially I had looked passed the shardnet because it doesn't kill things. My reasoning was that the wyches are sort of a CC clean-up squad so I would want them to hit super hard and wipe out their target as reliably as possible. Now that I think about it, though, and after seeing the arguments for it from HERO's blog, I'm thinking the shardnet might be the better option.
Now here is my concern: single A models.
The sharnet may be the best choice against models with more than one A (literally doubling your survivability against models in B2B with 2A), but they don't reduce attacks below 1, so against most things they will be a waste. This goes against what I see as the wych's primary purpose.
I feel like they fit in very nicely as a troop-killing CC unit. They have some durability in CC with their dodge save and FNP, but ultimately getting these ladies into combat with anything else that is meant to be there is not going to be a great idea. Combat drugs on a S3, T3, 1A+1, 4+ only seems really scary if you aren't supposed to be in CC yourself and you're outnumbered. They murder Tau and Guardsmen, but even ultra grit marines will laugh at them if the numbers are even. Basically, anything with more than 1A, I'm not going to want to be in base contact with (or so I think) and therefore the shardnet may be a waste.
Or, it could be insurance against things that I don't want to be in combat with that I get stuck with anyways. Maybe I swoop in to finish off some marines, and next turn his assault termies charge me. I'm still going to get reamed, but maybe the shardnet will buy me enough time to do something useful. Or maybe just insurance against getting charged in general, for that matter.
I don't know.
Fortunately (or not, as it makes the decision that much harder) all the weapon upgrades are the same points cost. For now, I think my lists will just include "wych weapon" in general and as I playtest perhaps I'll be able to figure out what I want.
As Sorrowshard pointed out in the last post's comments: 4++, defensive grenades, FNP, and -1A is a lot of durability. All I know is that sounds pretty good to me.
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* - This blog, btw, contains probably the best DE discussion that I've seen so far. I don't necessarily agree with 100% of what he says, but different strokes and all that. The guy definitely has some good ideas. Perhaps strangest of all, his comments contain a lot of great discussion as well. At the very least, he's leagues better than than the DE list building and analysis I've seen on BoLS.
Getting on Even Footing
2 years ago
Models with only one attack generally won't worry the Wyches, since they simply can't do enough damage (bar a fifty-man blob of IG, but why the hell would you charge into that?) to be much of a threat.
ReplyDeleteHaving looked at it myself, I think Shardnet/Impaler are the best choice. Neither of the others is a major increase in killing given their points (and given that added killiness is ALL they do- they don't bring another wound, etc). I played with Lash Whips during the 4E version of the Tyranid codex, and they can be a real life-saver; cutting 3-6 attacks from most opponents is a big deal, and against special characters and such it can be even bigger.
Yeah, that was pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. And the thing about models with only one attack is that the impaler/shardnet has no effect on them so is basically wasted points. It's not a huge deal, but it's something of a concern potentially.
ReplyDeleteIf the either of the other options were power weapons, or rending, or anything else that could ignore armor they might be worth it, but as it stands they just don't do enough.
My first thought on shardnets was that they were useless, as the wyches will almost always strike first - therefore, the enemy removes as casualties those affected by the shardnets.
ReplyDeleteHowever, on deeper thinking and a bit more reading, I realised that all you need to do to stop that occurring is place them in contact with a model the enemy doesn't want to lose. For best results, obviously, an independent character or squad leader with a damaging upgrade. That power fist isn't so scary if it only has one attack.
Given that the razorflail and hydragauntlets aren't adding enough bang to wipe a squad (although against T4+ are still more efficient per point than naked wyches), and that the shardnets are a continuation of the essence of 3.5 wyches anti-specialist role, I think I will have to go with them.
Although I am sorely tempted to do some razorflails modelled on Ivy of Soul Calibur etc, the rather obvious inspiration!